♪ Cause you were an easy love ♪ ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah ♪ ♪ Easy love ♪ ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah ♪ - Hi, my name is Zaina. I'm from the project She Can Play, and I just played at Dynaudio. - Hello and welcome to Dynaudio Unheard. My name is Christopher and I'm your host. Our next guest was forced to choose an instrument when she was six years old. Now, the guitar is her chosen weapon. Zaina, - Yeah, hi. - Thank you for joining me. - Thank you for letting me be here. It's nice! - You got a little bit of time over in the studio, right? - Around 15 minutes. - Yeah. We kinda ran into some power trouble. - Yeah. - And I know that must have been a bit stressful? - It was actually a lot stressful and it kinda had an impact on my music so. - Yeah, of course. - Too bad, but it was a lot of fun. - Yeah. And I know we are working hard on finding you a new time and I think that Christina found you one tomorrow? - Yeah, she found me one. Yeah, tomorrow night. I'll be there. - That's gonna be good. - We, as I said to you after you came out of the recording studio, people started, you know, pulling up chairs and you kinda know that's when you, that's when you have something good going right? - Yes, okay great I love that, it warms my heart when I hear stuff like that cause sometimes you're not sure. And in this case, I was not sure of the sound. - Yeah. - I was in a bit, I was not used to being in a studio like this so, it was hard for me to relax and understand how the music was like perceived by the audience. - And it's a stressful situation, right? Because you're in there, you know, okay, I wanna, you obviously wanna perform your best and you get this, you've got 15 minutes. - Yeah. - And if you spend 16 minutes, it might just be for nothing because the power gets cut. - Yeah! And that was kinda the whole thought I had while I was in there, so too bad, but it was fun to just try for a second and... - Yeah. Yeah. - Play a few songs. - As I said in the intro, you were kinda forced by your mom to choose an instrument when you were six years old. - Oh, sure. - Can you talk a little bit about that? - Yeah. When I was a little girl, my mom told me for Christmas that I could choose an instrument. - Yeah. - That was my gift. "Great," I said. "Which one can I choose?" And she gave me the choice of... back then it was like, I think it was drums and the flute and something whack. I don't even remember. - Yeah. I think it was the trumpet. Nothing wrong with the trumpet, but when you're seven years old... - You don't wanna play the trumpet, no. - No, so my sister chose that. and I chose the flute. I wish I had chosen the drums. - That could have been pretty awesome. So that's where it started and then year after year, I had to rethink if I wanted to keep on playing this instrument and my mom always gave me the choice to switch over to something else. - So I have been through a few instruments in time, the flute and the, I don't even know what it's called in English. - The harmonica? - Is that the real name for it, harmonica? - So it's that harmonica? Um, I thought it was like this one. - No, no, it's not. - No. It was that one. - It was that! Oh yeah! - Because I thought, yeah this is pretty embarrassing but that one, - But that one is, no. - No offense to people who are playing that. - No, no, no. But I guess when you're seven, eight, nine years old and you're forced to play that, it's, "Hey friends, this is what I'm playing now." - "I can't play today, I have to go and practice my harmonica." - But it sounds like you came up, you grew up in a family that was very focused on playing music and enjoying music, right? - Yeah, we were in general just a very creative family. My mom and my grandparents on that side of the family is painters and they all play one instrument at least. My mom plays the guitar and the flute. And my dad has always loved music, and always played a lot of music and tried to sing, and always tried to encourage us. Always singing before we went to bed. And I think just the constant reminder of creativity in music just made me love it. It was a family thing, and then all of the sudden it grew on me. - Yeah, and we were talking about earlier that you have five siblings, right? - I have four. - You have four, you are five. - I have four. - And all of you had to play? - Yeah, all of us play some sort of instrument. My brother started on the saxophone. My sister was on the trumpet and then ended up with the piano And my little brother actually, he's not... he tried, but he was not really into it. - He was excused? - I don't know, he ended up just playing video games. I don't know. But my little sister is playing. She played the saxophone as well, and then the piano afterwards. - Were you a little bit jealous of your brother, growing up, of your small brother playing video games? - But he's a lot younger than me, so I understand. He's a young boy. He just wants to play video games. - Of course. - But I'm very thankful that I was forced and my other siblings were kind of forced, too. That was one good thing my mother did, actually. That was really nice. - I know that you are now part of an organization, a collective, if you will, that's called "She Can Play." Do you mind telling us a little bit about that? - Yeah, so a few months ago, I was asked by another guy called Christopher... - Good name. - Who works for a place called The Bank, which is a music management in Copenhagen, and it's the place where my brother signed. He asked me if I was interested in maybe trying to audition for this community and I did. I sent a track and they welcomed me with open arms. So it was really nice. We are 10 young girls, or women, from the age of 14 to 22, and it's just all about encouraging young women in a positive way to grab the opportunity to be a part of this business, 'cause it's a very tough business. Especially for women. We often feel a lot of insecurity when we try to get a record deal, or we try to go to the studio, and guys are just way better at managing those feelings, while we just don't know where to turn to or where to get our inspirations. Because there are just way more male musicians than there are females, or male managers than there are female managers, or male producers than there are female producers. - But do you think that, at least me being a guy, I kind of have some insight into the whole gender, right! I think that for guys there's often this misconception that it's cool not admitting that things can get tough, that you have emotions, that you have feelings, and they kinda get pushed down, and it perpetuates a culture where, we were talking about earlier, it's so cool to sit in the studio 'til 4:00 a.m. and we're just partying hard, and that can be intimidating, I guess. - I just think guys are way better to ignore those feelings than women are. And then women get intimidated by always having to feel like that, always having to be in the studio until late, not getting enough sleep. It's tough to be pushed out of your comfort zone every day if you want to be a part of this business. And that's why we are 10 women trying to encourage each other to go have a session, but we can do it in the middle of the day, or go play something for each other without being like, "Oh, you're not that good." And women, we are mean. We are really good at seeing competition all the time, instead of seeing inspiration. We are really good at eyeballing each other all the time instead of giving a pat on the back and being like, "Next time you'll do better," or "Next time you'll be great." - That's what you're trying to, that's the environment that you're trying to create with "She Can Play," right? - Exactly, exactly. And I think Karen and Sala who are the two women who put this community together are amazing for doing that, 'cause I have never felt so great. My girls are here. They were here when I was performing, and I was sure that there was going to be someone. It's so nice, and it means a lot. - And you know, having support also means that you have a foundation from where you can grow, right? - Exactly. - And I think that's important to everyone. I'm not a musician myself, but I imagine, and from the things you hear about the business, that it can be tough, and it can be intimidating to be in. So having that foundation in place. - Yeah, I get something from these girls that I don't get from my other girlfriends, 'cause they are not musicians. Most of them have not tried anything close to the business, maybe some of them play the piano a bit, but they have never tried it and most of these girls have tried just getting in touch with the business and have tried being let down by the business. So it's really nice to share our experiences and learn from them instead of just going home crying every time. - Yeah, because I can try and imagine, but there's such a big difference from imagining something to actually having experienced it, right? And having someone who can relate, that's just always a big bonus. And we see each other as inspirations, 'cause these girls are really good. Amazing. And their music is really nice. They're all playing, by the way, except one. But we're here to support each other, so it's going to be nice. - You're here for how many days? - We're here until Thursday morning. We'll go back. - Four of you are coming into our recording room tomorrow? - Yeah. - It's gonna be cool. - Yeah, it's gonna be really nice. - You were talking a little bit about how tough it can be coming up in the music business, as a young woman. Do you mind going a bit into that again? Talking a little bit about some of the obstacles that you've faced along the way? - Yeah, I think, or at least for my case, I had a hard time stepping down and saying "Enough is enough." That was really tough for me, 'cause I didn't have any experience. Every time I met someone from the business who had been there for years, I was really intimidated, and I forgot, maybe, where my boundaries were and what I wanted to do, 'cause for most of the time, you just think they know better than you do. And then you end up crying in the middle of the night 'cause things are not the way you wanted to. Your music is not real anymore, somebody else takes your music, whatever. Stuff like that happens. And it's not fun, ever. - It shouldn't be like that. - No. I was at a point where I was like, "Now I'm not gonna do this," 'cause every time I want to go perform, every time I want to go into the studio, people are eyeballing me, people are not being that nice, but they see money, they see opportunities or no opportunities. If they are like, "No, we don't think you can "be an artist," they will ignore you for the person you actually am, so instead of seeing a person, they will see, "Is there any money in this? or should be just push her to the side and take somebody else in?" I've tried having songs, I wrote some songs once, and they were given to someone else without my consent. - That must be heart-breaking to have... - It was heart-breaking. It was the worst thing that ever happened, 'cause I'm still in the process of seeing music as a product instead of something like poetry that is very close to me. - But do you think that it can ever be, when you're connected to your own... - Sometimes. Sometimes I think it's healthy and important to let go of your songs, and sometimes I would love to be a songwriter for someone else. But it should be with my consent, that's all. - Obviously. - That's all I'm asking, but sometimes if you're in a business where they have the upper hand, 'cause they're more professional, they know more about law, and contracts, you just get lost and all of the sudden, somebody else is singing your songs. - And it's just easy when you go into, you're talking about contracts, law, and if you're young, and at least from how I understand, She Can Play, that's also what the community is trying to change, right? That you don't get overwhelmed by someone who "Oh yes, but look there, this line where you signed, "that means that I can..." - Do this and this and this. - Just go, "But that wasn't our agreement." - You said something else, but the paper says... - Yeah. - And that happens a lot. Instead of, women, or at least, I, usually just want to trust the word of a person, and I forget that it's business, and I forget that everybody's should just get money out of it, or get something else out of it instead of just seeing you as a person. They just don't give one. - I can't imagine having to go through that business because I feel the same way. I have to feel secure with the people I work with, and feel like when I say that I'm gonna do something, that people follow through, or people know that I follow through. That must be incredibly tough coming up. - In some way I think that the music industry is a bit corrupt, 'cause it is at the end of it, it's about how much money you earn and how powerful you are in the business, and there are some people at the top of it, and most people just want to please them. But I don't know if I wanna just do that and then lose the purpose of being a musician. For example, if I want to play my songs and then all of the sudden, if I had a manager, he would tell me, "No, let's try to sing somebody else's songs." "Let's make a hit, let's make a pop song." and I don't wanna make a pop song. Then all of a sudden you're bound by some contract, maybe, or something like that. And that's stuff that frightens me a lot about stepping into the business, 'cause Maybe you end up being something else than... - What you originally started being? - Yeah, exactly. All of the sudden you're standing on stage in some whack outfit singing some song you... - That you can't even relate to. - Yeah, exactly. - It must also be when you're writing your own music, you described it as poetry before, right? It has a connection to your identity. - Exactly. - And when it then gets corrupted in a way by, okay this might be your identity, but we need to make x amount of money for the next album, so now you're singing pop. That must feel like being in some way, and it's a strong word, but sort of violated a little bit. - Exactly, 'cause you're not seen as the person you are. And that's the thing in the industry it's very hard to see people as the person they are or the way that they want to be. They just want to maybe fit them into a box and make them do something so it makes a lot of money. I'm not, I don't think that's my purpose. - No. - And it's so fine if people want to do that, if they love making hits. But I just don't think it's my purpose of my music. - And it shouldn't have to be forced upon you, right? - Exactly. - Zaina, if you had to give a couple of tips, pieces of advice to young women starting out in music, what would it be? - Okay, follow your heart. That sounds very corny. But seriously, just do you. 'Cause if you do something else, you'll end up crying in your bed in the middle of the night. Don't make business with people you love, 'cause then you'll end up crying in the middle of the night. And... Yeah maybe, last thing, don't do anything just for money, 'cause then you'll end up crying in the middle of the night as well. Maybe that's my top three advice. - Zaina, thank you so much for coming. I really appreciate that you shared all that you did. I really appreciate that. Thank you so much. - I just ended up talking a lot. - That was perfect. I loved it. It was so nice having you here. You are playing again tomorrow? - Yeah, tomorrow night. - So stay tuned, Zaina is coming back. She was incredible. People were pulling up chairs earlier, which is the best thing that can happen. - Sign from the universe. - So make sure to check Zaina out. Thank you for joining us. ♪ Yes it's true, yes it's true I'm taken ♪ ♪ Yes it's true, yes it's true I'm taken ♪ ♪ Yes it's true, yes it's true I'm ♪ - Yeah, okay!